TOWN OF ROCKY HILL

BOARD OF EDUCATION

PUBLIC FORUM OF SEPTEMBER 20, 2006

 

Members Present:   Neil Geldof  (Chairman)

                                      Nadine Bell

  Peter Arico

                                      Mark E. Carberry

                                      Charles McMonigle

  Anne Schmidt

                                      Catherine Vargas

 

Members Absent:    Jennifer Viggiano-Grosse

  Rene (Skip) Rivard

 

                                     

The Board of Education held a Public Forum on Thursday, September 20, 2006, in the Council Chambers of the Rocky Hill Town Hall, for the purpose of disseminating information concerning the Facilities Committee Report and Recommendations on addressing the conditions of our schools and space needs to address enrollment increases and programmatic changes. 

 

Chairman Geldof called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.

 

The pledge of allegiance was recited.

 

Dr. Vautour and Mr. Arico presented the Facilities Committee Report & Recommendations, School Space Needs, June 2006 through power point presentation (Attachment #1).  The focus of the report was the long term (25+ years) building needs of the school district.  The report contained five sections: building statistics, enrollment data, philosophical/programmatic considerations, feasibility study review, and recommendations.

 

With regard to Stevens Facilities Inadequacies, “antiquated intercom system – teachers cannot call out from classrooms,” Dr. Vautour explained that in actual classrooms teachers have the ability to call the office, however, in several of the instructional spaces that have been made out of closets or storerooms there is no calling capability.

 

At the conclusion of the presentation, Mr. Geldof suggested everyone take a brief recess.

 

Moved by Nadine Bell, seconded by Mark Carberry, to take a brief recess.

 

FAVOR:  ALL

MOTION CARRIED

 

Mr. Geldof explained that the Responses to Questions Raised at the August 29, 2006 Forum will now be read.  Mr. Arico read the questions and Dr. Vautour read the responses.  (Attachment #2.) 

 

With regard to the response to Question #6:  Dr. Vautour said the response should indicate, “between $699 and $856 per year.”

 

With regard to the response to Question #20:  Dr. Vautour explained that in a Memorandum received from the Town Manager it is explained that, the matter has not been discussed by the Town as the referral has not come to the Council from the Board of Education.  However, without even looking at plans I foresee a need for added parks and rec staff as well as additional custodians to maintain a new school.  The cost of two park maintainers and four custodians would be about $325,000 annually for the first year.

 

With regard to the response to Question #21:  Dr. Vautour explained that in a Memorandum received from the Town Manager it is explained that, it would depend on the size and scope of parking areas and athletic fields.

 

With regard to the response to Question #27:  Dr. Vautour explained that in a Memorandum received from the Town Manager it is explained that, the parks garage would have to be relocated requiring the construction of a new building to land currently owned by the Town or to be purchased.  The cost will not be known until plans are prepared and a location decided.

 

With regard to the response to Question #31:  Dr. Vautour explained that in a Memorandum received from the Town Manager it is explained that, much of the remaining land at the Veterans’ home is wetlands and is not suitable.  If the Town were to utilize some of this land for a new school they would have to replace it with equal acreage, or pay the State 50% of the current market value.

 

At the conclusion of the presentation, Mr. Geldof asked people who had not previously asked questions or made comments at the last meeting to come up and speak. He explained that persons who spoke at the previous meeting would be given an opportunity to speak if time permits.  He asked Town Manager, Barbara Gilbert to speak first.

 

Mrs. Gilbert wished to reassure parents that their children are safe in the schools.  There maybe things that have to be upgraded, but that is only because things were built to a specific code and we are not required to change the code until we make renovations.  The kids are safe.  If there is something involving a code that needs to be addressed, it is addressed. The Fire Marshal and one of our fire department members who is a state fire inspector have assured me that our buildings are safe and when they see a code violation they address it.  No one should feel uneasy about sending their kids to school.  The schools are safe or we would shut them down.

 

Mr. Steve Aleco of 131 Bailey Road and who has four children in the school system said he appreciated the presentation.  It is clear that the need is real for upgraded facilities and the question becomes do we build a new elementary, middle or high school.  His thoughts are that the existing high school’s location and adjacency to the athletic fields and the middle school are ideal.  Other towns have to bus students to such locations.

 

He explained that he has site planning experience and has done work on schools, etc., and cautioned before moving ahead with drawing up plans to first have a site that is good - there aren’t any major physical, environmental or major infrastructure issues associated with it.  He asked if before the Board and the Council make a decision and ask people to vote for a referendum to inform everyone of  what the site is and to see a conceptual layout of what the school might look like on the property.  It’s not going to affect the price of the property. He explained that he worked on a site in central Conn., where the money was allocated for the building and the building was designed, but there was no site and it turned out that the site was suboptimal and they had to force a major traffic issue down the throats of the local residents.  The lesson learned is that you have to have the site first.  He wants to make sure that that is the next step in the process, and would like to see that before going ahead.

 

He expressed concern regarding Moser School and the indication that it could be used for other things and could be a potential revenue generator for the town.  He said the slides painted a bleak picture of Moser School, so he’d like to know what potential uses there could be for it based on the condition and the age of the building.  He feels the potential use might be limited.  He concluded with stating that he is for building a new school, he thinks we need it and thanked the Board for their efforts.

 

Mr. Geldof explained that we have not looked at school sites yet and reminded everyone that this is in the “embryonic” stage and has a long way to go.  Dr. Vautour said potential uses for the space have been listed in the PowerPoint Presentation.

 

Mr. Pete Egan of 48 Whitewood Drive said that the dugouts at the baseball field and scoreboards at the softball and baseball fields did not cost the taxpayers anything, it was done by volunteers of the Rocky Hill Athletic Booster Club.  He has been an advocate of athletics for a long time, and is a coach in the Rocky Hill school system, and is in the school system every day.  He has the opportunity to be at a lot of other schools and has a lot to compare things with and he wished to speak about the space and facilities problems that Rocky Hill has.

 

Mr. Egan feels Rocky Hill is lacking in a lot of ways and that we don’t compare favorably to a lot of other school systems.  He thinks what the Board is doing is tremendous.  He explained that as a basketball coach he shares a space that is 4’x10’ with girl’s soccer, hockey, and track and field.  When his season ends, he takes all his equipment (uniforms, basketballs, etc.) and stores it in the basement of his home.  Every other coach is the same way.  He doesn’t want Rocky Hill’s equipment in his basement and neither does his wife, but if he doesn’t take it home, he’s not going to have it the next year.  For example, last year he was late in moving the equipment, soccer moved, the basketballs were placed in an unsecured area and all the basketballs (25 basketballs @ $35 each) were taken.  He said this is what they are up against, they have no place to store things; no place to meet with student athletes; it’s embarrassing when a team comes in and they have to dress in a bathroom, garage, or in the hallway.  We do have a big problem and it is his feeling that we need a new high school and we need to move the school system to the optimum level.  He has two children (one out of the school system and one leaving this year) and believes this is important for Rocky Hill, that we have to look forward and do this for our kids, our students, and the future of the town.

 

Mr. Geldof said the fields, press boxes, and scoreboards are items that would not be forgotten but it is too premature to design them into a facility now – it all takes place later, but the Rocky Hill school system will not be without its athletic facilities.

 

Mr. Robert Hovey of 25 Heather Hill said he has lived in Rocky Hill for about 9 years, is a parent of four children, and his wife is a teacher.  He said it is hard to talk against a lot of the suggestions the Board has made and that he knows what it is like to deal with limited school facilities.  He also said he didn’t know this was going on until he read about it in The Hartford Courant.  He said it is hard to speak at a meeting like this when you haven’t done a lot of research.  He said there is a lot he doesn’t know and made the following comments:

 

  • Shouldn’t we take a look at a 6th or 7th option?

 

·        It seems as though we are focused on enrollment increases; do we know whether the enrollment projections are correct?  Those of us who have been parents for a long time have seen a lot of enrollment projections that have turned out to be incorrect.

 

·        With regard to teacher/student ratio, one individual is quoted in the Courant as saying that our student/teacher ratio is less than some of the surrounding towns.  Does teacher/student ratio become the end-all when we are looking at factors that have an impact on students’ ability to learn? Many teachers would say that is not much of a factor at all and we use it too often as a basis for moving forward.

 

·        Where do my elected officials stand on this issue?  How do you handle your budget; do you believe in looking for ways to cut spending or is the approach tax and spend?  He said he cannot afford a tax increase.  The highest percentage (26%) of his budget goes toward direct taxes; 12% for the mortgage (less than half of what is paid for taxes; 10% for food; 4% for health insurance; and 3% on gasoline).  He doesn’t know where this is going to go, but one thing he knows is that is that he cannot afford to pay any more taxes. For my family we start with cutting expenses and he wanted to be assured that when the Board moves forward that will be the way in which they handle this situation.

 

Mr. Dave Kromas of 16 Marshall Road said he has been a resident of the town for 45 years.  He thanked educators for the excellent education they’re providing to students.  He has been involved in the fire department for over 20 years and the deputies and inspectors do a fine job and the schools are safe.  Any code violations raised were a scare tactic - when you make renovations you have to bring the building up to code.  As a taxpayer and single parent, he said he cannot afford another $800 a year out of his budget.  We are looking at three referendums and every time one is approved how much higher will taxes go.  He realizes services have to be provided and things planned for, but like the gentleman said before, there is more than one option and more than one way to look at things.  He thinks for now with the recent tax increases over the last few years and with everything we are looking at - such as acquiring open space and the foundry property and this - these are all tax increases.  On these millions of dollars you are figuring at today’s prices, have you figured out when you will break ground what the prices will be?  He commented that he thought the advertising on this was very poor and that not a lot of people know about it.  He talked to people all over town and not a lot of them knew about this meeting.  He would not rule out a school in the future but he doesn’t think the taxpayers can afford it right now.

 

Mr. Charles Wisnioski, of 666 Old Main Street, said that in the responses provided by the Facilities Committee and Dr. Vautour, they addressed the Griswold Middle School and how the intent was to have a bigger, bolder, brighter project than was actually built.  He read from the Strategic School Profile that, “Griswold Middle School is a state-of-the-art middle school designed to meet the educational needs of Rocky Hill sixth, seventh, and eighth grade students.  Presently 563 students attend Griswold Middle School and participate in extensive academic as well as extra-curricular programs.  In 1977 Griswold Middle School was chosen as a middle school of the year by the Conn. Assoc. of Schools.  In June, 2000, Griswold Middle School was named a nationally recognized blue ribbon school.  In May, 2002, Griswold Middle School was chosen as a spotlight school from the New England League of Middle Schools.” 

 

He continued by stating that Dr. Vautour sent him three years of Dr. Prowda’s State Department of Education projections.  The Nov. 1, 2001, report which is the most current report states the following:  “I believe that the Griswold Middle School will experience a period of modest growth that will take enrollment to 660 students in 2011 before receding.”  Griswold Middle School replaced the junior high and it is designed for team teaching, it has three pods, it has been configured for a special type of teaching.  There is no demonstrated need for more classrooms there.  It is recognized as an excellent school.  To take that school and now to have to adopt the high school to team teaching and then change the Griswold Middle School to an elementary school seems to be a cost that doesn’t make any sense.  He said many of the questions by the people here and by myself have to do with the enrollment projections. They are the key to how much do you build, when you build, what you build.  Dr. Vautour, will we receive a 2006, 10-year student enrollment project from Dr. Prowda and if not, why not?  Dr. Vautour said we will receive a 2006 projection report from Mr. Prowda of the State Dept. of Education.  We will file the documentation that he requires on October 1 and sometime in November we will have the updated enrollment projections.

 

Mrs. Jane Hiller of 177 Catherine Drive said she wanted to point out some inconsistencies in math in the scenario projections.  She is confused as to how Scenario 1 improves all buildings for $73 million and Scenario 5 improves all buildings plus a high school for $97 million.  The difference is $24 million.  Obviously, there are differences in the improvements in Scenarios 1 and 5, but without having read the Schoenhardt report she doesn’t know what those are.  She said another concern she has is today’s figures vs. build out year figures and overruns, etc.  She asked everyone to consider the full project costs, not just net costs to the town, because the state funding that we would receive is still coming out of our pockets in some other fashion.  She thinks we need to be a responsible state as well as town citizens in looking at how we spend all of this money.

 

Mrs. Beth DiLoreto of 10 Allison Way said she has two children who attend Stevens School and is very much in support of this project.  Her comments included:

 

  • She was here five years ago talking with the Board about the redistricting that was being discussed then.  She expressed concern at that time that this was a very short term solution to a problem which has now proven to be true.  Currently, there are nine classrooms over the recommended guidelines.  Eight of those are at Stevens School.  This was exactly the concern that we had when the redistricting happened.  She said the year the redistricting happened her son was one of about 10 or 15 children who were affected by the change.  However, we are now seeing the long term affects of that.  She strongly believes that we have to look at a long term solution.  Looking at short term solutions to this problem, in the long run, is going to be a costlier process.

 

  • She looked at another statistic.  She took two examples - when her daughter will be a freshman in the high school and when her son will be a senior in the high school.  She said if there was no population change, if the same number of students were in the grades when they are at those levels, the high school will be overpopulated.  She said again, it is truly her belief that the only fiscally responsible way to handle this is to come up with a long term solution, not another short term one.

 

  • She said the last comment she wanted to make is that she feels strongly that this issue affects every taxpayer in this town whether you have children in the schools or not.  Not just because every taxpayer is going to be paying for it, but because the quality of our schools dramatically affects the value of properties in the town.  It is one of the most highly looked at issues when determining the value of property.  She encouraged everyone owning property in the town to look at that as an issue.

 

Mr. Bill Kasprzynski thanked the Board for answering the questions to this point.  His comments are based on observation of the existing schools not on studies and are based on options other than constructing a new facility.  For example, it maybe feasible to build a two-story addition at Stevens School where the portable classrooms are presently located.  At West Hill, four classrooms were added in 1999, at a very reasonable cost and done very efficiently.  There appears to be unused land immediately behind the library office area and near the present butterfly garden. These areas could possibly be used for modest expansion.  One thing mentioned last time was the office area at West Hill.  He said, as a resident he loves the open office reception area - it is very non-threatening to parents, students, and visitors.  There are private areas beyond that area.  Moser School, he said personally he’d love to see it leveled and a new elementary school built.  Maybe you could use that footprint and go up.  There is a little land out back.  I think something could be done there.  You have to think outside of the box.  Griswold Middle School, is okay as it is, especially if something is resolved at the elementary level.  Arrangements are often made to use the high school facilities.  Sports teams have been using nearby Elm Ridge and Sunnycrest facilities for years for sporting events.  They have used the high school for years for graduations, plays, etc.  You are not going to get a large turnout for middle school indoor sporting events, plays, etc. and if you do you can make arrangements with the high school.  Rocky Hill High School athletic facilities could be designed to fit into that existing structure should that be necessary to maintain the quality of courses and to meet accreditation requirements.  Parking – the more parking spaces, garages and roads you build, the more cars there are to fill them.  If you want to think out of the box, no athlete, band, choir member, performing student, may bring a vehicle to school for practice games or performances.  Bus transportation will be provided or they may be driven by an adult to that activity.  For large events shuttle buses could be used as have been in the past.  There are parking areas at the high school, middle school, elementary schools, Sunnycrest, and Elm Ridge Parks, and people could be shuttled from them to where the event is taking place.

 

He said that to him the Schoenhardt report says that we have done a good job of building facilities in Rocky Hill, but we may have faltered in maintaining them.  Yet, we want to build more.  He asked the Board to explore as many solutions to their problem as they can think of and remember the money they are playing with is not their own, it ‘s the taxpayers.

 

Mr. John Farnham of 902 Grey Fox Lane said he asked a question at the last session and felt the answer was not quite sufficient.  He said it was reiterated tonight that there have been 25 new students into the school, but yet we cannot keep track of what classes they are going into and where the trend might be.  He said he doesn’t seem to be able to accept that as a reasonable answer.

 

He said other things he wanted to express is that we have a very big senior population in town and with the tremendous amount of condo building going in town with mostly all of it being for 55 years old and older, these people don’t have children that will be going to the schools.  He reminded the Board of a new Bill passed by the Conn. State Senate asking that a freeze be put on senior citizens who are 70 years of age and older and with a limited amount of income. He said that didn’t seem to be taken in great favor by the Council as to approving that because as they pointed out that could be a tremendous cost to the Town especially if something like this came in and you have several hundred people over 70 years and qualify for the freeze program.  The majority of the building being approved in this Town is for senior citizen residences and these people, myself included, will be taxed right out of the town and you are going to be sitting with a lot of empty condos that are going to be looking for 55 and over people.  They are buying now because people are downsizing and taking the cash from their houses.  Now, with the market going down, it could and will have a significant impact on the senior citizens of the town.  He doesn’t think they will survive something like this, so he suggested the Board try to sharpen their pencils, and put bigger erasers on them, and get rid of those large numbers.

 

Mrs. Pauline Allen of 279 Charter Road said she wondered if anyone has ever though to consider building a second story onto Myrtle Stevens School which would satisfy much of our needs at the elementary level.  She thought our high school was built for 1,000 students.  We are only “guesstimating” and don’t really know how many children will be enrolled in the future.  However, she said she realized many of our schools need attention.  Some of it seems to be exaggerated and there is a lot in that report that could be weeded out or thought over more carefully.  Again, there are things that need to be addressed, but she wondered if at this time we really need a high school.  And, if you are talking about $700 or $800 more a year, I could not live here.  She has raised seven children and believes in education, but our kids have never suffered, they have won awards, wonderful teachers that we have are to be commended.  Again, as others have already said, if you could sharpen your pencils, give it more thought, it is the taxpayers’ money you are spending and we are going to trust you to do better. This is a tremendous amount of money.  She said she can’t imagine $800 more a year; she is a senior citizen and has been here almost 44 years and wants to continue to live here.

 

Mrs. Marti Stiglich, a Town Council member, said she agrees with the bulk of the people who have spoken and said that the Board cannot afford to go forward with a project like this.  It impacts a lot of people whether or not they have children in the schools or not.  People want to live here but they cannot afford to do so if you’re going to continue with these types of taxes.  We are looking at other referendums coming down the pike like the MDC one.  The money has to come from someplace and it only comes from taxpayers and a lot of people can’t afford to go in this direction.  She asked the Board to get out their pencils and look to see if there are other creative ways in which you can achieve what you need to achieve.  One thing to look at carefully is that a lot of the emphasis is on the number projection of new students that we are expecting over a period of time.  One of the three numbers that you used came out of the Planning and Zoning Town Conservation book which indicated that, if the town went to this amount of people then you could expect 3,300 students.  She said that’s an old number and she doesn’t think that anyone can accurately project how many students are going to be in a school.  She asked the Board to think about the trending in the country.  20 years ago I wasn’t expected to live beyond age 69.  Today, I am expected to live to be 85.  So, people are living longer and the emphasis on the part of the government, health care, and communities is not to take older people and force them to leave their community, but to stay in their homes.  She asked the Board to look at the numbers again and bring it down by 150 students so we don’t need to go off in this direction.  She said increasing a class size by one or two students may not be an awful thing to consider when the flip side is - like several people have told you - they will have no option but to move out of this community that they have lived in for 20, 30, 40, and 50 years.  Yes, we all want our property values to stay high, but even if they stay high, you sell your house, you have to go live someplace else.  We encourage you as a community to go back to the drawing board, get your pencils out, and think creatively.  I like the idea some people had about going to a second floor.  I agree that if you put more parking spaces out there people will come.  Consider other possibilities.  A lot of people out there can’t afford to go in this direction.

 

Mrs. Marti Durkin of 33 Winding Brook Drive said she is new to Rocky Hill within the last year and has a son who has not yet started school but will be attending West Hill next year.  What she heard tonight was a lot of people can’t afford the recommendations.  She thinks the Feasibility Study was fairly well thought out, and agrees with a lot of the recommendations and is not opposed to adding on.  She is here to represent the families in town who struggle and who feel they can’t afford these recommendations.  She wanted to provide an outsider’s perspective and said when she was looking at houses for purchase, she drove by Moser School and didn’t recognize it as a functioning school.  She thought it was a rundown area and therefore, decided to look at the other side of town.  She said her husband is a blue collar worker and they don’t earn a lot of money.  She said housing prices in Rocky Hill have doubled over the last five years.  She said they saw the same houses that were on sale in 2000 sell for twice their price in 2004.  What was the catalyst for us to move here was the promise of a great education.  We had gone on the website for the Board of Education where we were able to read meeting minutes for two years and we looked at a lot of towns and different school systems and it was the promise of a quality education that we felt confident our son would get here.  What is also important to me is that the environment he learns in be accessible and satisfactory, safe, well-designed, well-equipped and that is not what I am hearing is the situation from the people that teach in the schools, the coaches that were here.  She also believes that if you don’t have kids in the school system, you still have to understand the direct correlation of your property value to the quality of education in the schools that you have in the town. She said it is what brought her and her husband here even though we had a hard time affording the house.  It took us five years to find a house here that we could afford.  It was way high end but we did it because of the promise of the school system.  I think that a lot of these recommendations are pricy, but if you don’t invest the money in your kids, where is it going to go.  Your money is going somewhere.  Let’s look at where we need to put it not where we want to put it and I don’t think this is a wish list. This is something that needs to be done.

 

Dr. Vautour encouraged anyone who hasn’t looked at the Schoenhardt report to do so.  He said in Options 1 and 2 some of the creative, out-of-the box thinking that has been suggested such as a two-story addition at Stevens School, an addition at West Hill School, adjustments on the Griswold site, are contained in the report.   Mayor LaRosa added that there are copies of the Schoenhardt report available at the library.

 

Dr. Vautour explained that the next step is for the Board of Education as a whole to deliberate on the Facilities Committee’s recommendations.  The Board has yet to take action on the recommendations of the Committee. Depending on the action they take, that recommendation will be referred to the Town Manager and Town Council. Then, the process that the Town Manager suggested will take place is that the Council will probably review or refer the matter to the Government Operations Committee for discussion and deliberation.  Then, the Council makes a decision as to what action it wants to take.

 

Mrs. Kathleen Canaza of 3 Thomas Court said she has no children in the school system and never has. She asked if the Board might make a recommendation on one of these five scenarios or something else.  Dr. Vautour said that is something the Board will have to decide, but theoretically it could be on one of these five scenarios, or a variation thereof, or something totally new.  She said one of her concerns is the cost of the project.  She agrees with comments made about the quality of education and she knows it is very important in attracting people to live here and it impacts property values, etc.  However, when you are thinking about spending this amount of money there are so many issues that will impact the cost of the total project.  She doesn’t know if all issues can be addressed before we go and make a determination.  If we could have some idea before a recommendation is made by the Board; do we then have an opportunity to speak again and start from scratch.  Mr. Geldof said, yes.

 

Mr. Scott Coleman of 200 Cold Spring Road said he is in the business of conducting opinion polls and invited everyone to view the poll and post comments at www.municipolls.us .

 

Mr. Geldof said he feels we have been successful over the two evenings in obtaining good questions, comments, and food for thought.  He regretted hearing comments that people did not know about this.  The Board has done everything in its power to publicize these meetings and that’s why they held two meetings.  He doesn’t know what else they could have done and was glad that Mr. Coleman spoke because one of the questions in the survey was, did you know about this, in which slightly over 50% of the population responded that they did know about it.  We’ve made great efforts to publicize this and we could only get to 50% of the people, I don’t know what else we could have done.  This meeting will be rebroadcast many times.

 

Moved by Peter Arico, seconded by Charles McMonigle, to adjourn the meeting (9:40 P.M.)

 

FAVOR:  ALL

MOTION CARRIED

 

Respectfully submitted,

 

 

 

 

Juanda J. Simons

Recording Secretary

 

Accepted by: _______________________         Date:  _____________________